Joshua Vance is escorted out of a Chehalis courtroom after making his pleas to murder, attempted murder
By Sharyn L. Decker
Lewis County Sirens news reporter
CHEHALIS – The Centralia College student accused of stabbing to death his sleeping father in their Onalaska home two months ago pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity.
Joshua Leroy Vance, 25, appeared in Lewis County Superior Court today. He has been found competent to stand trial.
Judge Nelson Hunt asked Vance if he heard and understood what his attorney told the court about why they were there.
“Yes I do,” Vance replied.
He is charged with first-degree murder in the death of his father Terry Vance, a 58-year-old Onalaskan long known for his dedication to coaching and refereeing baseball.
The younger Vance is also charged with three counts of attempted first-degree murder, as he allegedly told an arriving deputy he was going to kill his grandmother, nephew and uncle but couldn’t because he cut his hand.
He pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity this morning to all four counts.
Joshua Vance’s family has said he was being treated for mental health issues and had gone off his medication because he couldn’t afford it.
He was arrested early the morning of March 7 after he and his grandmother both called 911. Deputies found the father in a bedroom dead of multiple stab wounds.
Joshua Vance was taken to a Seattle regional trauma hospital to be treated for lacerations to his fingers he told a first responder he did to himself to make himself stop.
Attorneys on both sides in March requested an order for him to be evaluated by specialists at Western State Hospital to determine if he was mentally competent to stand trial.
An 85-minute interview conducted inside the Lewis County Jail concluded he was, according to a report in his court file dated April 12.
His defense attorney David Arcuri said the finding only means that today his client has sufficient mental abilities to be a defendant, to understand the basics of the criminal justice system and to meaningfully assist in his own defense.
“It’s totally irrelevant to the date of the offense,” Arcuri said.
The questions now will be what what his client’s mental state when the events occurred, Arcuri said.
The guidelines for criminal insanity look at if a person suffers from a mental disease or defect such that they could not comprehend the nature or quality of their act, and, even if they could understand, could not conform their behavior, according to Arcuri
The report from Western State Hospital describes Joshua Vance as being under the care of a Chehalis clinic since early 2008.
His diagnosis’s included psychotic disorder, major depression, amphetamine dependence and alcohol abuse, according to the report.
One of the passages describe his Cascade Mental Health doctor as understanding a hospital stay in early 2010 was related to “command hallucinations to kill himself and harm others.” The report describes his complaints of hearing voices in the past and as recently as March.
He has in the past been treated at least two other mental health clinics, one of them in 2009 for substance induced hallucinations and mood disorder, according to the report.
Joshua Vance told the evaluator he started using methamphetamine at age 11, but had not used it for the previous two years. He said he began using cannabis when he was 8 years old.
His doctor, according to the report, indicated last October, with his medications adjusted, he seemed to be doing fairly well.
He started school, was getting good grades and began going to the gym, according to the report.
Joshua Vance’s past criminal offenses include possession of a controlled substance without a prescription in 2006, third-degree assault and attempted eluding in 2005, according to the report.
Lewis County prosecutors have amended the current charges to include aggravating circumstances of deliberate cruelty and a particularly vulnerable victim – because his father was asleep when it happened, according to Deputy Prosecutor Joely Yeager. An so-called deadly weapon enhancement has been added as well.
Chief Criminal Deputy Prosecutor Brad Meagher told the judge today he expects the trial will last five days. It was scheduled for the week of Oct. 22.
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Read background “Murder suspect: “When he was good, he was such a good young man”” from Friday March 9, 2012, here
Tags: By Sharyn L. Decker, news reporter
Quoted by George: Monday, May 14, 2012 at 11:55 am
“@ “regardingaddiction”, you just keep thinking those happy thoughts about addiction being a disease. It’s not. Addiction is a person doing something, getting in trouble for it, and placing the blame on whatever it was that they had been caught doing.
Addiction is NOT genetic. It is the refusal of a person to take responsibility for their actions. Does booze MAKE a person take a drink, get drunk, and drive into another car, killing someone? No, it doesn’t… the person who drank the booze made the conscious effort to grab the bottle and take the drink.
Does meth make a person go out and rob, steal from friends and family, destroy lives? No, it does not… the person who smoked the chemicals decided to pick up that pipe on their own and do it.
Do we need to hold these people accountable for their actions? You better believe it. But instead of placing the blame for what they did on something else, put the blame where it belongs: on THEM. After all, they are the ones who chose to do what they did.”
Well said George! We also need to hold the parents accountable for not teaching their children better values in the first place!
I am not trying to justify Joshua Vance’s actions but I would like to know what made an 8 year old use drugs in the first place? Did anyone in his family know or even care? Why couldn’t Joshua’s family get him effective help between the ages of 8-23?
this guy killed his fucking father and the father was a teach of my husbands and my brother in law’s so what if he did or didnt do fucking drugs he killed a man i hope he gets life in prison would you people want the same thing if one of your family members killed another in it i sure as would and as for mental health i dealt with it seance i was 5 years old you can’t blame that and you cant blame fucking drugs you the one who did wrong so fess up and deal with it you did the crime now do the time i am so sick of freaking dumb people who fight about blaming drugs or not he did something really bad so let it be a good man is dead so why dont you say sorry for the death of the guy and leave other bull shit out of it and him pleaying not guilty is bull shit he is and like i said he should get life in prison its like that 2 year old that got raped and killed and people where only fighting about her picture and not saying sorry for somthing about her death death his a big deal so dont fight over stupid things
@ Emothug, yeah, I think you’re right. But I will still hold myself accountable for my actions (and others for theirs), and not put the blame on some “addiction”….
@Regardingaddiction…not sure when that funding is going to hit law enforcement, the last reports were that local agencies were struggling. As far as a cure for addiction, I think as long as there are humans in this world, there will be hurt, addiction, pain, trouble. I too would love to see a cure. Just seems new addictions to different drugs appear all the time and there’s no end in sight. I turned to God when I realized the mess I could make but each one of has to choose our own path.
@George…good luck with that guy. He/she just likes to argue. 😉
As a person who spent 38 years of my working life dealing with addictions and mental health issues as well as years working on and evaluating federal grants from Universities all over the world on addiction research, I can tell you that the basic information from “regardingaddiction” is totally and completely correct. There are 3 major addiction and Fetal Alcohol Sprectrum Disorder research programs at the University of Washington alone and fully half of the major universities in the U.S. jointly fund, with federal funds, addiction research (every aspect of it). There is enough research out there to keep you in bedtime reading for the rest of your life. Check in with any physician who has been out of school less than 10 to 15 years and ask. Or better yet go to an Addiction Medicine doctor and learn your facts.
It is a difficult and complex physiological “disease” that involves every organ and cell of the body and brain. What we don’t understand, we make up a story about to make thing logical based on what we can observe. Remember it has only been about 100 years ago that we did triephoning (blood letting) to cure everything from colds to death bed diseases.
OK, “regardingaddiction”, let’s go your route, and coddle the people who simply cannot stop picking up the bottle or pipe because of their horrible addictions and diseases. Let’s continue to let them use those addictions as a crutch, so that they won’t be held accountable for what they do.
Sure, when someone gets over their abuse of alcohol or drugs they may feel contrite and have remorse for things that they may have done, but if we don’t hold people accountable for their actions ALL the time (not just AFTER they become “clean”), then it sends a message that “you can do what you want, but we’ll forgive you… .just don’t do it again”…
And that leads me back to my original point: Nobody makes these people pick up the bottle, needle, straw, pipe, whatever… they do it of their own free will. Don’t make up excuses for them…. for that doesn’t do them, or us, any favors.
If I do something wrong, I expect to be held accountable for my actions, for it is MY fault that I did it. No excuses such as “the bottle made me do it” or “the pipe made me do it”… I did it. Me. By finding excuses for those who abuse drugs or alcohol, well, we just can’t hold people responsible for their actions, because that’s just not nice, isn’t it?
@ George – not so much for your edification, but for other readers. While the studies are located on the National Institute of Health website, many are actually completed at research universities. Yes, those universities do accept money ‘tainted’ by the government touch – but at some point we have to stop being paranoid and start accepting that the studies are valid.
The American Medical Association has recognized alcoholism as a disease since 1955.
The NIH institute also hosts studies on many other conditions, including cancer, diabetes, heart disease – many others. Would we discount studies on ANY of those diseases – even if they conflicted with our own opinion?
What I’ve finally come to realize is that most folks who are adamantly, emotionally, vehemently opposed to the idea of addiction as a disease do so because they have been personally hurt by addiction. And the idea of disease generates thoughts of compassion… and that just doesn’t sit well with the idea of vengeance for the wrongs they have undergone.
Truth is – addiction and alcoholism are nasty, horrible diseases. But the people within – the ones who emerge when sober – those people are truly just as wonderful as any of us… except they have been to hell and back as part of their disease – and most have a much greater tolerance for their fellow man.
I propose we start treating addicts and alcoholics as people who have a terrible disease that requires treatment. That the treatment is not a silver bullet (any more than chemotherapy is a silver bullet for cancer) and that mulitple rounds of treatment may be necessary for the more aggressive or intrenched forms of the disease.
I think we should stop throwing away our valuable resources and throw our money into research… and maybe in ten or fifteen years, the prisons (whose population is now around 80% addicts and alcoholics) might begin to empty out and our world might be filled with responsible, contributing taxpayers. Who, if they play their cards right, might be elected to presidential office (see Kennedys, Bush, Clinton, etc…).
I dunno… it could happen. 🙂
Actually, Pete’s Bench, I was indeed corrected on sentencing guidelines… I was going off of what I was able to find on the STATE website (the STATE site that lists the Revised Code of Washington). The info that I was putting out WAS correct, but was not the sentencing data they were taking into account in the case of the rapist.
As for your opinion of me, well, to quote you, “The great thing about public forums is the ability for people to stand atop that hill and boldly proclaim for all to see the dearth of their knowledge and wisdom.” Don’t break your arm patting yourself on the back.
George,
You come across as an exeedingly simple minded person.
The first clue I had was on another story when you were misreading the state sentencing guide lines and insisting you where correct with your info.
The great thing about public forums is the ability for people to stand atop that hill and boldly proclaim for all to see the dearth of their knowledge and wisdom.
@ “regardingaddiction”, you just keep thinking those happy thoughts about addiction being a disease. It’s not. Addiction is a person doing something, getting in trouble for it, and placing the blame on whatever it was that they had been caught doing.
Addiction is NOT genetic. It is the refusal of a person to take responsibility for their actions. Does booze MAKE a person take a drink, get drunk, and drive into another car, killing someone? No, it doesn’t… the person who drank the booze made the conscious effort to grab the bottle and take the drink.
Does meth make a person go out and rob, steal from friends and family, destroy lives? No, it does not… the person who smoked the chemicals decided to pick up that pipe on their own and do it.
Do we need to hold these people accountable for their actions? You better believe it. But instead of placing the blame for what they did on something else, put the blame where it belongs: on THEM. After all, they are the ones who chose to do what they did.
Besides, the “data” you supplied is from the government. Yes, the very same government that couldn’t buy a piece of penny candy without making that penny candy cost $200. They will put out only the “data” that supports their viewpoint, disregarding any other information that might refute it.
As for the younger Vance not taking the drugs prescribed to him, if you had read my entire post instead of just picking and choosing what you were going to read, you would have seen: “the blame is on him for NOT taking the drugs that were prescribed to him, on the drug companies for making those drugs so exceedingly expensive that they are out of the reach of most people, and the insurance companies for putting their bottom line above the well-being of their customers.”
But just because he was smoking meth (or doing any other drug), don’t place the blame on the drug… nobody is forcing him to do it.
@ George – also, drugs like the ones the Vance kid ‘refused’ to take costs $1,000 per month. Just so you know – sometimes, it isn’t all about choice.
@ George – that “drivel” is available from the National Institute of Health and is based on scientific, double-blind studies… you know, rather than opinion.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17099884
@ Pete’s Bench – sadly, any kid in middle school – ANY middle school – in Lewis County has access to marijuana, alcohol, pills and meth. It ain’t the same as it was back in our day. I was shocked, too, then realized being shocked did not fix anything, and currently work in this field.
@Emothug – do I think addiction can be mitigated? Of course… but in far smaller numbers than we believe. Alcohol was long a hopeless drug to recover from – but after AA got started in the 30’s and 40’s, we started seeing some significant recovery. Of course a full 30% still died active in their disease, but it was still better than before. With the street drugs and prescription drugs our kids are getting started on now days… that recovery rate goes WAY down. You might consider that one of the things that keeps us from getting a better solution to addiction is society’s belief that it does not deserve treatment. Which is why I post in forums like this… trying to facilitate change where I can.
Perhaps if a young person’s addiction had a medical intervention (like insulin for diabetes) it would not get bad enough to trigger incipient mental illness, or get in the way of trying to adequately treat such mental illness.
Currently, our country funds law enforcement as a cure for addiction, filling our prisons and not making any actual difference in the addiction rates. Perhaps if that money was funneled toward research and a cure… a miracle could happen. We’ve seen it happen before with cancer – which used to be a shameful disease that folks hid from each other. Worth considering, at any rate.
Regardingaddiction…
Do you think addiction can be mitigated through behavior modifications, like self control? I know several people with addictive traits, who choose to abstain. People in my own family who have gone there, went there not because they didn’t have a choice. They went there because something else was screwed up and it either eased the pain or hurt the one who caused it. All of the addicts that I know, family and non family, for whatever reason, are extremely self centered. Your way of thinking only makes matters worse. Blaming does not fix the problem, identifying the reason they choose to medicate that way can, if they want. You can lead a horse to water…
@George, some real quick and easy research on your part would provide you with the info about genetics and addiction…you can just ‘google’ it.
It’s been my experience, that once an addict is sober and clean they do take responsibility for what they have done and those they have hurt during their time of using.
I don’t think that saying it’s “genetic flaw” is casting judgement on the whole family…any more than it would be if you blamed the family for passing on a predisposition to getting cancer, high blood pressure or high cholesterol……or any other number of things that are passed on through family genetics.
I also wonder about Josh Vance having access to drugs at such a young age….using pot and meth at 8 and 11! I find it amazing, but, perhaps they really are that readily available….scary!
@ “regardingaddiction”, where are you getting that drivel? Addiction is NOT a genetic condition, but it is the refusal of a person to take responsibility for their actions by pinning the blame on something else. Sadly, even society agrees with this nonsense… just look at the bullshit called “drug court”.
Does anyone hold a gun to the head of a drunk? No… he picks up that bottle through his own choice. Does anyone do that to a drug user? No… they pick up the pipe, syringe, or straw all by themselves. And do very many of those people stand up and take personal responsibility for anything they may have done? Nope… they have a crutch to fall back on, one that society looks at and goes “You poor person, it’s ok, we’ll forgive you, it’s not your fault…”
In the case of the younger Vance, the blame is not on his using drugs… the blame is on him for NOT taking the drugs that were prescribed to him, on the drug companies for making those drugs so exceedingly expensive that they are out of the reach of most people, and the insurance companies for putting their bottom line above the well-being of their customers.
But to say that his “addictions” were “genetic flaws”, isn’t that the same as “casting judgement” on the whole family? Yes, that is a very low and nasty thing to do, for that is you saying that the entire family is filled with “addicts”… which is the furthest thing from the truth.
I don’t see anyone on here casting ill judgements against his family.
However it is a legitimate question as to how a 8 year old gets access to marijuana, or methamphetamine at age 11.
It serves no purpose to rationalize it as being the same as a kid sneaking a beer thirty years ago. A kid is able to access beer because it is available around the house. Whether or not that was the case with the controlled substances in this case, I don’t know.
Please remember that addiction is a genetic disease – it has mostly in the past manifested as alcoholism. It runs in families.
Those of you casting judgments on the Vance family (PS – what a low, nasty thing to do) might look around his or her own family to see if any young teens were sneaking a beer back in their younger days. That is the equivalent of a young kid picking up a drug these days… it is that available. The only difference is that the Vance kid picked up a drug that is almost impossible to put back down and paid a horrible price for it. Indeed – less than 10 out of 100 can walk away from meth.
And before anyone gets all high and mighty about why he picked up in the first place, you might want to note that in addition to the 89 genes identified as being associated with addiction, there is a gene or three associated with risk-taking personalities (you know, the kind of risk-taking we need in leaders and warriors)… that gene often co-occurs with addiction. Making it far more likely for a young person to believe he or she can ‘handle’ a situation – even if they’ve never dealt with it before – especially if they are in middle school when they have not yet developed critical thinking skills.
So when folks here go on about a possible horrible family life, I have to remember they are trying to rationalize why they might be somehow different from the one they are talking about. When, in fact, they should be concerned by how many similarities they might find… if they bothered to look.
If you have alcoholism in your family, you have already passed the gene down to one of your children. So, now what do you do…. just wait and see if they pick up? Let me know how that works for ya.
And if you have mental health issues in your family (80 percent of adolescents with addiction have a co-occurring mental illness), you also have concerns.
Instead of spending time vilifying the boy and his family… why not put that energy into finding out why the drug that kept him sane was over $1,000 a month and why insurance won’t pay for it. Or why adult drug treatment is no longer funded by the state (remembering that MOST addicts become too debilitated to work and get insurance)?
Addiction is a health care condition, not a moral failing and not a choice. You got that there liver tumor under control? What? Well, you aren’t ‘trying’ hard enough, now are ya? You still suffering from diabetes? All you have to do is think about it right… you been to treatment four times for that eczema? Why isn’t it cured, then?
While there is a behavioral element to addiction (as there is to diabetes and heart disease), we don’t turn our backs on THOSE diseases with a ‘holier than thou’ attitude.
A fine man was killed by a person who was out of his mind. We cannot fix that… but maybe, if we start thinking about it differently, we could keep it from happening again.
He is one of the best attorneys Lewis County has. I would use him in a heartbeat as a criminal defense attorney. It is experienced, intelligent, and a former prosecuting attorney. Top 5 in Lewis County. Just Sayin…
I am not your enemy. Wouldn’t it be funny if we actually knew each other?!? Just hoping to spark some thought in you or anyone else who reads this, not asking you to change your mind, just consider a different point of view. If you are content with how things are that is your prerogative. Obviously you’re choosing not to look at it from any other perspective so I concede to you. You win! Enjoy the weather and have a great weekend. I have to go mow before it gets too tall!
In your wordy response you never indicated what was the reason given for useing contracted attorneys. And what does this have to do with this case?
I have to imagine a full time office dedicated to public defenders with administrative staff, computers,health coverage, pensions sick leave, maintenance costs and utility costs would be prohibative to the tax payer.
A defendant might be better served, if counciled by an experienced attorney, as opposed some one just out of lawschool.
And how do you know for fact the scenario you layed out speculating as to attorneys taking public cases just to run up hours is indeed fact?
However to someone who lives on the public dole and advertises their peeves on a piece of plywood in the back of an old yellow pick up, it probably doesn’t matter.
Petes Bench,
Normally I don’t waste time arguing on the internet because its so impersonal and tends to get a “bity” and less than civil. In person there are the social barriers that prevent throwing in the jabs that are so easy to do on line because of the mask worn, also known as anonimoty. Fascinating studies done on the very matter, people become more aggressive in nature when the subjects of their aggression don’t know who they are. But I digress.
A true public defender, who’s employer would be whatever
court they worked for, would be paid a salary, regardless of how many cases they worked or trials they tried. Just like the prosecutors are. Salary. The phone number I gave you is the Lewis County Prosecutor office that houses criminal and civil attorneys, but no defense attorneys. Call it and ask them to verify my claims.
A sub contracted, “public defender”, works for a partnership or is a partner, in a private law firm. These lawyers get paid by the hour on class A felonies, like murder, and cost the county more than if the county used in house lawyers, aka public defenders. And yes, these private attorneys can get retained by the defendants who can afford them.
All of the “probablys” in your post indicate speculation, which is your right, but drastically reduces your credibility along with the sophomoric jabs. So, please take your own advice and call Mr Meyer, you can reach him at the number I provided, for your own education and edification.
My reason for spending the time to tell you this is not to get into a ridiculous on line argument, but so that people like yourself, and others that read this, will ask the questions and hold our elected officials accountable. Don’t take my word for it. Call the prosecutor, call the sheriff, call the county commissioners. Maybe it is cheaper the way they’re doing it. But I don’t think so. 😉
They might subcontract private attorneys to serve as public defenders, but they are still serving as public defenders. I fail to see your point Emo. Either way the county citizens are being billed.
It is probably cheaper to contract out, as the county probably doesn’t have to pay out retirement and health benefits.And are you sure they bill by the hour when serving as public defenders? If they do, they probably bill at a reduced rate from their normal rate for private practice. You are aware private area attorneys also serve as Judge pro tems as well when needed?
A defendent still has the option of hiring their own attorney.
And what are you doing, calling law offices, and then doing hang ups? Why not call the court clerk or Prosecutors offices’ to obtain information on public defenders, or legal aid offices for that matter?
I am just fine “me.” Thanks for your concern. I usually read sitting down. 🙂
Disgusted also Sad – I hope that you didn’t hurt yourself when you passed out! Remember always read safely!
emothug it kind of scares me that I often agree with you and I am proudly Republican and I politcally lean to the right. They don’t call it “right” for no reason, yanno’?
I despise lawyers and I have a special dislike for the one’s in Enbody’s office and that blonde, bitch prosecutor that works in Centralia District Court. (I’ll pass out if this makes it past Sharyn)
Crap, another typo…correct number is 740-1240. Fat fingers…
Woops, best interest of the family or the citizens of Lewis county. It’s in their own best interest!!! These guys are gouging the system and laughing all the way to the bank. Truth doesn’t matter. Justice doesn’t matter. Squeezing every billable hour out of a case and hopefully going to trial is what matters! One good murder trial can bring a private attorney that the county sub contracts fifty grand or more !!! Does Miranda mandate you have the right to an attorney and the right to have one provided for you if you can’t afford one? Of course it does. Some counties employ their own because its cheaper in the long run. Oh, we can’t afford to pay their salaries and benefits. I submit that we cannot afford to go on sub contracting. So I ask you! Why does Lewis county not have public defenders?!?!?
I looked up David Arcuri and he works for Enbody. A PRIVATE ATTORNEY!!! Call 740-2140, hit 3 when prompted, and ask for the defense side of the office. Then, when you’re told that Lewis County does not have public defenders, but sub contracts through private attorneys, tell THEM they don’t know about Miranda. I love it when those who have no clue make definitive statements like they do. The point is, a public defense office would be run out of the same office as the prosecutor, therefore, the county would pay attorneys a salary for their work on cases should a defendant request an appointed attorney. With private attorneys being subcontracted, they get paid by hours worked on the case. Therefore, they drive the cost up by filing every motion known to man, requesting extensions forever, and basically dragging these cases out as long as possible. Why you ask? It’s certainly not in rhe best interest
@ Pete’s Bench….exactly! I find it pretty amazing….using drugs from that early age…where was he getting them? ? Home life must have been something else! Then probably add some legal meds to ‘help’ with behavior problems…
It seems redundant to me for a “deadly weapon enhancement” on a murder charge. Wouldn’t a charge of murder already imply that a deadly weapon was used?
Do any of you people read the article before commenting?
He stated he started using methamphetimine at age 11 and had been smoking pot since he was 8. That’s not going to do any favors to a developing brain. Probably contributes to his psychosis in a big way. I imagine he uses alchohol too. That helps me to understand why he has been a habitual offender these past twelve years.
I have to wonder about what was going on in his domestic situation, causing him to self medicate, someting difficult to cope with?
And this county does have public defenders, it’s a federal law to allow a person charged with a crime to have legal council provided if they cannot afford their own. Ever hear of Miranda Rights?
I’m sure we could trace it back and blame it all on the Republicans and the Evil drug companies for making his medicine so costly. If HE made the choice to go of his medicine, maybe they should locked him up then.
I wonder if he was one of those kids that got hooked on drugs because a teacher recommended that he was ADD or something and the medication messed up his chemical balance? Yes, very sad.
I think it’s sad all the way around. Sad that he killed his own father. Sad that he couldn’t afford medication he obviously desperately needed. How do you punish someone that is that mentally unstable? Maybe he should be institutionalized for life, but I doubt prison will do him any good. Nobody wins in this situation except the over-priced, dumbass attorneys.
At this point, in the hands of the attorneys, truth sadly has nothing to do with it. It’s all about billing the hours and laughing all the way to the bank on our dime! Why doesn’t this county have public defenders?